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jfathman
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 Posts: 8 Location: Lewisville, Texas
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How many times flash PIC before verification errors? |
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:57 pm |
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I am using CCSLoad and LOAD-n-GO to program a PIC18F67J60.
After reprogramming it less than a dozen times, I am getting verification errors.
In general, how many times should I expect to be able to reprogram this (or similar) PIC processor? Do these things only take programming a few times before wearing out, or is the one I have atypical?
Thanks.
Jim |
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PCM programmer
Joined: 06 Sep 2003 Posts: 21708
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:40 pm |
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The PIC data sheet says:
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TABLE 28-1: MEMORY PROGRAMMING REQUIREMENTS
Program Flash Memory -
Cell Endurance: 100 Minimum, 1K typical |
That is pretty low compared to most 18F PICs.
18F67J60 data sheet:
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/39762f.pdf
Post the error messages that you are getting. |
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Ttelmah
Joined: 11 Mar 2010 Posts: 19552
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:03 am |
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That really is terribly low. Perhaps 100* worse than just about any other PIC!...
It's worth also realising that you may create more cycles than you 'think', unless you are very careful in how things are set, and what you change. :(
However, that being said, a failure so soon, raises other things:
Most likely cause, wiring, smoothing, environment, etc.. The life can be made much worse, by things like excessive heat, poor smoothing during the write, electrical spikes - list is endless.
Also the actual electrical connections used by the programmer can have a major effect.
This thread might be interesting:
<http://www.microchip.com/forums/m342033.aspx>
What programmer are you using?.
There were bugs with this chip and several programmers on specific software versions.
There are several threads on the Microchip site about this. |
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asmallri
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 1635 Location: Perth, Australia
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Re: How many times flash PIC before verification errors? |
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:43 am |
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jfathman wrote: | I am using CCSLoad and LOAD-n-GO to program a PIC18F67J60.
After reprogramming it less than a dozen times, I am getting verification errors.
In general, how many times should I expect to be able to reprogram this (or similar) PIC processor? Do these things only take programming a few times before wearing out, or is the one I have atypical?
Thanks.
Jim |
I did extensive testing with this processor when it first came out. I developed a bootloader for this family and had to be sure the product would be useful without prematurely killing the PIC. Despite very extensive testing I was not able to kill them by repetitive programming.
HOWEVER I did have a lot of trouble programming them. The issue turned out to be the length of the cable that came with the ICD2 at that time. Once I halved the length of the standard cable I had no more issues programming the devices. _________________ Regards, Andrew
http://www.brushelectronics.com/software
Home of Ethernet, SD card and Encrypted Serial Bootloaders for PICs!! |
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jfathman
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 Posts: 8 Location: Lewisville, Texas
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:02 am |
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Thanks, these are all very helpful replies. Great community.
To answer the questions, I am using CCSLoad with LOAD-n-GO, and the verification step fails with:
Verification Results
Program Memory
Address Actual Expected
00000800 30 72
00000801 21 EF
00000802 20 A1
00000803 30 F0
00000800 30 38
00000801 21 31
00000802 20 38
00000803 30 39
8 errors from 800 to 803
Error patterns indicate a failure to erase. |
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jfathman
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 Posts: 8 Location: Lewisville, Texas
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:04 pm |
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This turns out to be pilot error on my part. I had changed the serial number length used by the CCSLoad utility, and that clobbered the very address 0800 that reported the verification failure. Dueling storage. Sorry for the fire drill, really appreciate the helpful suggestions.
So with the PIC flashing properly again, I am back to the original problem that had me fiddling with the serial number storage.
I have procedure documentation for what is probably an older version of CCSLoad that has serial number configuration fields including Address and Length(bytes), and a choice between Prgm ROM and Data EEPROM.
However, my contemporary version of CCSLoad v5.018 has instead Address, To, Length(bytes) and a choice between EEPROM, ROM 1/Inst, ROM 2/Inst, ROM 3/Inst, and ROM CONST.
(The odd thing is that the online help in the new v5.018 CCSLoad has screen shots of the older fields, not the new ones.)
If I was supposed to select Prgm ROM with the older CCSLoad, what is the equivalent choice among EEPROM, ROM 1/Inst, ROM 2/Inst, ROM 3/Inst, and ROM CONST?
Thanks very much.
Jim |
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Ttelmah
Joined: 11 Mar 2010 Posts: 19552
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:50 pm |
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The options are for:
1) EEPROM - puts it in EEPROM - only for chips with EEPROM
2) ROM 1/Inst - puts one character per instruction. For PIC16
2) ROM 2/Inst - 2 per instruction PIC18
3) ROM 3/Inst - 3 per instruction PIC24 etc..
4) ROM Const - formats as for a Const.
#ROM for your chip stores as option 2. |
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jfathman
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 Posts: 8 Location: Lewisville, Texas
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:35 pm |
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Thanks Ttelmah, most helpful. Makes perfect sense. |
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ronaldoklais
Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Posts: 13
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:53 pm |
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What is the minimum? To put a PIC into production we need to burn 100 times the same source? |
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Ttelmah
Joined: 11 Mar 2010 Posts: 19552
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:54 am |
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Read the data sheet....
Already been answered for this particular PIC (100 Minimum), however this is very exceptional. Most are more like 10000. |
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ronaldoklais
Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Posts: 13
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:29 am |
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And a hardware to do this? |
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jfathman
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 Posts: 8 Location: Lewisville, Texas
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:33 pm |
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Following up for future readers of this topic --
It turns that I was experiencing a problem with CCSLoad when programming the PIC18F67J60 using LOAD-n-GO.
I reverted from a recent CCSLoad version 5.018 to an earlier version 4.030, and the flash write errors no longer occur. I can reprogram the PIC at will.
Thanks again for all the quick assistance. |
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Ttelmah
Joined: 11 Mar 2010 Posts: 19552
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:41 pm |
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ronaldoklais wrote: | And a hardware to do this? |
Er. Any programmer or bootloader.... |
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gaugeguy
Joined: 05 Apr 2011 Posts: 303
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:35 pm |
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You can program the processor up to a minimum of 100 times before it may begin to fail.
You do not program the source code 100 times before releasing it. |
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ELCouz
Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 427 Location: Montreal,Quebec
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:13 pm |
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PCM programmer wrote: | The PIC data sheet says:
Quote: |
TABLE 28-1: MEMORY PROGRAMMING REQUIREMENTS
Program Flash Memory -
Cell Endurance: 100 Minimum, 1K typical |
That is pretty low compared to most 18F PICs.
18F67J60 data sheet:
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/39762f.pdf
Post the error messages that you are getting. |
Wow this is low... you better know what you are doing
Often you could reach this number on a prototype model (with a lot of release cycle)... _________________ Regards,
Laurent
-----------
Here's my first visual theme for the CCS C Compiler. Enjoy! |
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